Go Back   LegalMatch Free Legal Advice Forums > Real Estate and Property Law Forum > Real Estate and Property Issues
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Find a Lawyer Now By Category:
Family & Divorce Criminal Defense Job & Employment Personal Injury LegalMatch on Facebook
  Real Estate Lawyers Immigration Business Lawyers Other Lawyers LegalMatch on Twitter
LegalMatch is Fast, Free and Confidential
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2008, 03:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1
Investor foreclosure

Hello, This is my first time on this forum.I am pleased to be here and am intersted in the many opinions that will be offered for these many and varied situations.
I will move on and explain my story.
I recently have purchased a home from a group of investors and I have been notified by an outside source that this home is in preforeclosure.
I didnt have direct knowledge of this , but this source is very credible.
I also realize that my name is not on the mortgage note, therefore , I must do all dealings with the real estate company in which I closed on the property with.
My question is , If this home is owned by investors and going to foreclose,
What recourse can I have to insure I do not have to vacate the home and what is the legal responsibility of the brokers (Real estate company)and myself?
maverick is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2008, 08:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 365
Go to the county recorder of deeds and find out who the owner of record is. Then check for mortgages and other liens on the property... in the same place. Call the mortgage holders and the lien holders to determine the status of the loans and the foreclosures. You will have to explain that you are in the process of considering a purchase and tell them what you have signed and whether any money has changed hands. They can probably give you all of the potential bad news. But tell us, why would you sign any purchase agreement or mortgage document that did not have YOUR name on it?

Something is fishy here... smells pretty bad. Seek help from the local state's attorney if you get no answers from the real estate folks you have been working with. DO IT NOW.

If a real estate broker drew you into this quagmire, he can have his license lifted for breach of fiduciary duty. You might still contact a title insurance company, but by going to the registrar of deeds, you can find out the information that would make it uninsurable without spending the money. If there are no registered mortgages or liens, spend the money and get title insurance... but go back to the broker / real estate people and ask why your name is not on the mortgage. It is possible they are using YOUR money to prevent foreclosure and don't really intend to pass title to you. Be very careful if you have given them money here. See the local DA to see if there are any other complaints against these folks.

Last edited by donallie; 12-22-2008 at 08:07 AM.
donallie is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2008, 05:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by donallie View Post
Call the mortgage holders and the lien holders to determine the status of the loans and the foreclosures. You will have to explain that you are in the process of considering a purchase and tell them what you have signed and whether any money has changed hands. They can probably give you all of the potential bad news.
Unfortunately, calling someone ELSE'S mortgage company and expecting them to divulge the status of someone else's mortgage, one which you are not a party to is an exerise in futility.

Unless you are the person named on the note, there is absolutely no way that you can contact a mortgage company and ask them if the person on the note is in foreclosure, nor can they give you any other information about someone ELSE'S loan. In fact, a spouse cannot even access a husband or wife's account if their name is not on the note as well. After my husbands death, I attempted to contact the lienholder to tell them he had passed away and not only would they not speak with me, they would not even accept any documentation from me until they received my court documents proving I was the executor of his estate.

No way is anyone at a mortgage company going to discuss the status of someone else's account with someone whose name is not listed as the mortgagor.

If foreclosure proceedings have begun, the corresponding documentation will be made part of the public record and will be on file at the courthouse.
__________________
[COLOR=magenta][COLOR=blue]G[/COLOR][COLOR=darkorchid]r[/COLOR][COLOR=darkslategray]a[/COLOR][COLOR=orange]c[/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]e[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]To [COLOR=blue]ERR [/COLOR]is human.[/COLOR]
To [COLOR=darkorchid]FORGIVE [/COLOR]is divine.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]
GentleGrace is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2008, 07:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 365
While the mortgage company won't disclose information about a mortgage belonging to another person... if that mortgage is in good standing... there is reason to believe that this mortgage is in preforeclosure... and if it gets to foreclosure this person has lost his money unless he can come up with enough money to correct the problem.

Thus, Grace, he should go to the mortgage company and tell them the story and just see if they will give him the information about status of foreclosure or preforeclosure. He should take his documentation. The first question to ask after being rebuffed is whether they would allow him to take over a mortgage that size. Then comes the question of whether they would allow him to be taken advantage of if the property was ready to go into foreclosure. Perhaps the bigger question is whether they used his money to stave off foreclosure and have not completely corrected the shortfall. They might not answer THIS question depending on whether they are still lining it up to foreclose. Of course, if there is no problem, they won't tell him anything... but he will learn a lot from just asking and getting the visual cues.

I have to add here that he already has a potential fraud ongoing because they did not put his name on the contracts he put money into. That, to me, is first evidence that they are moving against his interest and have no intention of passing the property to him. Did he SIGN the contract? Where is the evidence that he is buying the property? These days it is seldom that a mortgage company will allow a third party to take over a mortgage loan... it is usually written in the mortgage that it cannot be sold without paying off the mortgage...but just in case that mortgage company allows assumptions, he must find out if they would allow HIM to take over the mortgage. It would probably save him money if they would, but there will be fees.

The true bottom line here is that these "investors" have attempted to defraud the mortgage company by NOT bringing their buyer to the mortgage company in the first place to attempt an assumption of the loan. A land contract makes no difference, but MIGHT be what they thought they could use to manage this exchange without actually putting the property into the buyer's name.

The real estate broker is due to have his license lifted if this man files a complaint with the state licensure board and they see what has been done as illegal or risky to this man.

Last edited by donallie; 12-28-2008 at 07:43 AM.
donallie is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2008, 09:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick View Post
Hello, This is my first time on this forum.I am pleased to be here and am intersted in the many opinions that will be offered for these many and varied situations.
I will move on and explain my story.
I recently have purchased a home from a group of investors and I have been notified by an outside source that this home is in preforeclosure.
I didnt have direct knowledge of this , but this source is very credible.
I also realize that my name is not on the mortgage note, therefore , I must do all dealings with the real estate company in which I closed on the property with.
My question is , If this home is owned by investors and going to foreclose,
What recourse can I have to insure I do not have to vacate the home and what is the legal responsibility of the brokers (Real estate company)and myself?
It sounds as if you've purchased this property on either a land contract or real estate contract, depending on where the property is located. That simply means you've purchased the home from the current owners (investors) who appear to be in preforeclosure proceedings. That is a separate contract from the original mortgage lender entirely and you are not (by law) entitled to any information on that mortgage currently in default. On the other hand, that original lender is entitled by law to foreclose on those investors for non payment of the mortgage and in the end, you can be legally evicted, in my opinion, even though you've maintained your payments as agreed. The question here is whether or not your contract was legally recorded on title; i.e. whether or not those investors actually owned the property in order to turn around and sell it. Given that a lender is demanding payment, it's a pretty safe bet those investors are still currently in title and still considered legal owners of the property by the recorded deed already on record. Again, this is only my opinion here.

Without more specific information, it's difficult to determine what actually happened. It does appear highly possible at face value that you've inadvertently wandered into a "flipping scheme" in order to bail out those investors. (Again, this is only an opinion here.) You can either approach the title company who closed your loan for a final title binder or you can go to the county courthouse of record and request a chain of title search for the past 12 months, along w/copies of the recorded warranty deeds. Regardless, I strongly recommend a consultation with a good real estate attorney in your area, fluent in your jurisidiction's real estate law, to try and determine your legal rights in this situation. If in fact your contract was legally recorded, you may have some recourse (with those investors, again not their lender of record); again, an attorney can better make that call.

In regards to your questions re: real estate brokers on the transaction, again that can better be answered by an attorney. Depending on whether or not they (real estate brokers/agents) are required to be licensed in your area and whether or not you can document an existing knowledge of the "flip," you may also possibly have recourse there as well. One place to start researching is Limited Denial of Participation - HUD this is a list of known sanctioned real estate agencies and individuals on record with FHA; your state may also have a similar list available, depending on your location. If any persons involved in your transaction appear on either link available at this site, again, I would suggest you contact an attorney immediately.

Good luck.
TheJury'sStillOut is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2008, 11:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,901
I agree with Jury's posting---in particular since her advice does not pose a violation of anyone's rights.

Donallie, the fact that someone's property may be in "preforeclosure" does not nullify the fact that stringent privacy policies, mandated by law, are in place. Failure to pay your mortgage does not negate your right to have your private information shared with a third party that was not privy to the original agreement. Sure, they can argue they have a fiscal interest in the property, but that does not change privacy policy laws.

I cannot and will not speculate as to if this situation involved fraud--about that, I have no opinion. However, I am convinced that it is categorically against the law for anyone to obtain information about a mortgage upon which their name is not recorded. While the OP may well be in a fraudulent situation, two wrongs do not make a right. The fact they may be defrauding him/her in no way means that the mortgage company is, therefore, allowed to disregard privacy laws.
__________________
[COLOR=magenta][COLOR=blue]G[/COLOR][COLOR=darkorchid]r[/COLOR][COLOR=darkslategray]a[/COLOR][COLOR=orange]c[/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]e[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]To [COLOR=blue]ERR [/COLOR]is human.[/COLOR]
To [COLOR=darkorchid]FORGIVE [/COLOR]is divine.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]
GentleGrace is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 08:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Grace, preforeclosure escalates to foreclosure. That is when there is no more privacy and if it has gone that far, he should be there to ask that question.

Privacy in this case has gotten out of hand. The investor owners have not given this buyer the amount of open evenhanded treatment that a buyer deserves. The fact that there is an offer on the property is of use to the mortgage company too. If there is fraud going on by the investors, who could be trying to get money from the buyer without intention of delivering the property due to an inherent flaw in his ability to purchase, the mortgage lenders are the proper folks to explore whether there is a possibility to purchase without allowing the original mortgage to be foreclosed. Then it must be a question of whether he can get a mortgage on this property.

These are all proper questions in a situation like this. If no information can legally be passed, at least the buyer can determine if there is a problem with his purchase where he might be forced into a default and lose HIS investment.

What would you have him do, wait until it forecloses and pay twice for it? He needs to get information and give information to several appropriate lenders so the property is not put into jeopardy... along with his investment.
boykinmama is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 08:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinmama View Post
Grace, preforeclosure escalates to foreclosure. That is when there is no more privacy and if it has gone that far, he should be there to ask that question.
Let me make sure I understand this jewel of wisdom. When a house is in "preforeclosure, that is when there is no more privacy"? Really? What law is that based on? If you are losing your house, at some point, privacy laws are abandoned? Really??


I am well versed with the prefix "PRE" as it means "comes before". Therefore the tutorial on the meaning of "pre foreclosure" was unnecessary.

You can outline all of the reason that you think that common sense would dictate that it would be fair for this man to have access to someone else's information--and they may be valid reasons. However, they are not flexible laws. Asking me "What would YOU have him do?" Is a futile exercise as well since I did not make the law nor am I the entity enforcing the law OR attempting to defraud the man.

Nothing you have said changes the fact that while unfortunately, this man is in a precarious position financially, it does NOT allow privacy laws to be disregarded simply because you may think it makes sense or is "fair".

I see repeatedly in these threads that both you and donallie articulate what seems to be a rational reason for the law to be disregarded because it is, in your respective opinions, "fair" to the "other guy". Unfortunately, that isn't how the law works. It isn't subjective based on the phone operator who happens to take the call asking for information.

If what makes sense was the standard, it made sense to me to be able to call the mortgage company my husband used and send them his death certificate and expect them to discuss his account with me. They would not. I had to go TO COURT, establish myself as executor, THEN and only then ( once I followed the protocol/law) was I allowed to discuss his mortgage with the company. This process wasted a lot of time and effort as I jumped through hoops--but its the same privacy that protects you and me against fraud, so I didn't mind doing it "by the book".

If the poster wants that information he will have to get it by subpoena pursuant to a court order/action because the information IS privileged AND protected. Whether or not it should be isn't for us to debate or decide. Is it fair? Maybe not. But is it the law? Yep.
__________________
[COLOR=magenta][COLOR=blue]G[/COLOR][COLOR=darkorchid]r[/COLOR][COLOR=darkslategray]a[/COLOR][COLOR=orange]c[/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]e[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]To [COLOR=blue]ERR [/COLOR]is human.[/COLOR]
To [COLOR=darkorchid]FORGIVE [/COLOR]is divine.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]

Last edited by GentleGrace; 12-29-2008 at 08:58 AM.
GentleGrace is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 09:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Your thinly veiled sarcasm has no limits. Quarreling nonsense, but limitless.

As usual, you have deliberately misread what I wrote. That you hide in pseudo legal language when you slice and dice is something you should be ashamed of.

Since when does ASKING the question force someone to invade another's privacy? If one GETS an answer, there is no privacy left... it is in foreclosure and he has to move fast or lose his investment. If one does NOT get an answer, one must persevere and determine if there is a problem with getting a mortgage and simultaneously inform the lender that the property is being sold to a new owner... and that this new owner will change the situation surrounding what they are in preplanning to do... THEY TOO DESERVE THE TRUE INFORMATION. IT IS PROBABLY REQUIRED IN THAT MORTGAGE DOCUMENT. ONE MUST ASK QUESTIONS of LENDERS...

Last edited by admin; 12-29-2008 at 09:53 AM.
boykinmama is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 10:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinmama View Post
Since when does ASKING the question force someone to invade another's privacy? ...
Where did I say "asking is an invasion of privacy laws"? I did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinmama View Post
If one GETS an answer, there is no privacy left......
Before, you said there is no privacy left at the point of "pre foreclosure". How you are stating the privacy laws evaporate once an answer is wrongfully obtained. Allrighty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinmama View Post
If one does NOT get an answer, one must persevere and determine if there is a problem with getting a mortgage.
You don't have to ask for privately held information in order to "determine if there is a problem with getting a mortgage".

This thread reminds me of the other that tells the poster it is ok to rifle through someone else's trash and risk getting arrested for a misdemeanor because the poster is entitled to be exempt from trash removal laws since she is trying to prove her ex drinks. ( handy "rational" justification for an illegal act).

The bottom line is these organizations are bound by privacy laws. I never said the man couldn't ASK---by why would you want to tell him to go through the exercise of asking when he will most likely not get past the proverbial "guard".

"They too deserve the true information"? Based on what? Your sense of right and wrong? I am afraid not. What legal premise gives this man the right to call someone else's bank and obtain information about the payment history and current status? The answer to that is , in a word, NONE.

If I misunderstood, please correct me. What does, "pre foreclosure escalates to foreclosure. That is when there is no more privacy" mean. Stop telling me I am misquoting you and explain what that statement means. Obviously, it is a rationalization born from your imagination where it should be FAIR for the poster to attempt to coax a mortgage company rep's to violate privacy laws. That may serve is own "end" but that doesn't make it acceptable nor does it make it legal .

Violating privacy laws is not the way to address or correct this wrong. That is the purpose of a court of law where he can legally obtain information under subpoena, not wasting time attempting to coax customer service personnel into violating federal privacy laws .

Do it by the book. What you are describing is anarchy. Everyone justifying their own personal agenda. Thankfully, that isn't how it is done.

The law is about precision. In the labyrinth of imprecision lies error.
__________________
[COLOR=magenta][COLOR=blue]G[/COLOR][COLOR=darkorchid]r[/COLOR][COLOR=darkslategray]a[/COLOR][COLOR=orange]c[/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]e[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]To [COLOR=blue]ERR [/COLOR]is human.[/COLOR]
To [COLOR=darkorchid]FORGIVE [/COLOR]is divine.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]
GentleGrace is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0
Copyright ©1999-2008 LegalMatch. All rights reserved. LegalMatch®, the LegalMatch
logo, and the tradedress are trademarks of LegalMatch. Patents Pending.