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Old 01-06-2009, 12:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Contracts that are signed by a cosigner who becomes indebted when the original borrower defaults... for any reason... are still valid collection instruments. The website does NOT suggest any reason to think that the cosigner will also be forgiven the debt... with the exception that it is a normal procedure for the spouse to NOT be hounded for the debt due to the financially debilitating nature of a spouse's death, but instead, to wait until both die and go after their assets. The state matters in that case because of the statute of limitations on certain types of debt, but not in all states.

By repeatedly attempting to reinterpret what I've said, you put the poster at risk of depending on your reading of a website... and we all know you have problems reading and interpreting.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donallie View Post
Contracts that are signed by a cosigner who becomes indebted when the original borrower defaults... for any reason... are still valid collection instruments. .
Who said they were invalid?? No one said that Sallie Mae was not legally ABLE to collect from her. I stated they OFFER THE POSSIBILITY that it MAY be discharged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donallie View Post
The website does NOT suggest any reason to think that the cosigner will also be forgiven the debt... with the exception that it is a normal procedure for the spouse to NOT be hounded for the debt due to the financially debilitating nature of a spouse's death, but instead, to wait until both die and go after their assets. .
Lets go line by line----it's the only way to make it simple enough for you.

Line one: "[COLOR=red]The website does NOT suggest any reason to think that the cosigner[/COLOR][COLOR=black] will also be forgiven the debt"[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#ff0000][COLOR=black]I'm sorry---how would YOU interpret this line:[/COLOR] [/COLOR]

A student loan [COLOR=red]may be eligible for discharge[/COLOR] (cancellation) due to death.

LOL this is unbelievable. The sentence from their page says [COLOR=red]MAY BE ELIGIBLE[/COLOR]. Why would they SUGGEST the debt "may be eligible for discharge" if they don't mean to "suggest any reason to think the cosigner will be forgiven"?

How can you MISINTERPRET A STUDENT LOAN MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR DISCHARGE, other than IT IS POSSIBLE?

Forge ahead.(shaking head)

The rest of your statements in the above highlight:[COLOR=red]with the exception that it is a normal procedure for the spouse to NOT be hounded for the debt due to the financially debilitating nature of a spouse's death, but instead, to wait until both die and go after their assets.[/COLOR]

Are you ready for the OBVIOUS? THE POSTER IS NOT THE SPOUSE. And, another thing I might point out--while the death of a spouse is emotionally devastating, it isn't always financially devastating. When a spouse dies at work, workmans comp provides a large settlement ( ask me how I know?) not to mention life insurance policies. I'm not in law school because I HAVE to be. Also, had my husband lived and I died, he would not have been affected financially in the least since I did not work outside of the home at the time of his death, and I have a half a million dollar life insurance policy on myself personally. It is erroneous to state that the death of ones spouse is unilaterally financially devastating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donallie View Post
The state matters in that case because of the statute of limitations on certain types of debt, but not in all states..
SALLIE MAE is a FEDERAL agency and is NOT bound by STATE statute of limitations.

You find relevance in the posters location( STATE laws ) in relationship to a federal agency over which a state has no jurisdiction, but insist it isn't necessary to ascertain location to discuss eviction of tenants? LOL I admit it. I laughed aloud.


Quote:
Originally Posted by donallie View Post
By repeatedly attempting to reinterpret what I've said, you put the poster at risk of depending on your reading of a website... and we all know you have problems reading and interpreting.
Actually, she can read it herself and she can submit the documents as SALLIE ME ( not me) has stated. I suggest she NOT rely on "my interpretation".

How does anyone misinterpret this?

A student loan [COLOR=red]may be eligible for discharge[/COLOR] (cancellation) due to death.

And the other question you are avoiding, how does that statement "fit" with your previous answer, "A cosigner is liable for the debt. Period." ? How is that taken out of context?
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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One More FYI........

Did you read below where it is POSSIBLE for the actual BORROWER to have the loan discharged if the COSIGNER DIES???

Read on:
Can a student loan be cancelled if the primary borrower, [COLOR=red]cosigner, or[/COLOR] student is deceased?

A student loan may be eligible for discharge (cancellation) due to death....
[COLOR=red]If the cosigner has passed away, please include the name of the deceased and the loan they cosigned. We will try to contact the cosigner ("due diligence") until we receive a certified copy of the death certificate.[/COLOR]

If discharging were not a possibility, I feel very certain they would not ask for documentation. It's not as if they have nothing to do but read obits.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm sure the lender would be ready to discharge the loan against a dead cosigner... just like they would discharge the loan against a dead borrower.
Read it again, Sam.

Do you not understand that they have a contractual right to go after whoever is still alive for their money?
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donallie View Post
I'm sure the lender would be ready to discharge the loan against a dead cosigner... just like they would discharge the loan against a dead borrower. Read it again, Sam.
I did, cupcake. DID YOU?

Where does it say they are willing to discharge the loan against a dead cosigner? IT doesn't say that the COSIGNERS responsibility ends if cosigner dies. It says the [COLOR=red]ENTIRE DEBT[/COLOR] can be cancelled ( even if the student is still alive).

You stated "discharge the loan against the dead cosigner". That isn't what it says. It says the STUDENT LOAN may be eligible for discharge, period.IT DOESNT SAY DEATH ENDS THE PARTIES INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY ONLY. It doesn't stipulate--and YOU, my dear bitter one, misquoted.

" A student loan may be eligible for discharge (cancellation) due to death..[COLOR=#ff0000]If the cosigner has passed away[/COLOR].. "

IT DOES NOT SAY THE COSIGNER IS DISCHARGED AS COSIGNER if he dies. IT says the STUDENT LOAN. PERIOD.

My point was NOT that if the cosigner dies, the cosigner is not responsible. That goes without saying. The point was the STUDENTS DEBT may be discharged if the COSIGNER DIES. Its their wording, not mine.

Obviously Sallie Mae considers discharging the entire debt if the STUDENT passes ( although some student loan companies do not ).

AND Sallie Mae also considers DISCHARGING the entire debt if the COSIGNER PASSES (not just the student.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by donallie View Post
Do you not understand that they have a contractual right to go after whoever is still alive for their money?
Of course, they have a contractual right. WHO SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT? My current student loan company DOES hold the cosigner responsible. BUT, Sallie Mae does NOT.

Bottom line: The question was am I liable for the debt with sallie mae as a cosigner.

The answer is: "A student loan may be eligible for discharge (cancellation) due to death.... " Notice it doesn't just say death of student. DEATH OF COSIGNER is also mentioned.

You nor I know if they will forgive this debt. However, Sallie Mae says they consider a discharge or they would not devote an entire web page to the process.

No one said they aren't ALLOWED to make the cosigner responsible. The point is SALLIE MAE ( not me ) says it is possible that the entire debt MAY be discharged by the death of either.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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You are the one who always cries about assuming anything. Now you are ready to assume that because a cosigner dies, the original borrower will have his loan discharged... and vice versa, you assume that if the original borrower dies, the cosigner will have the debt written off too.

Now if you read what you wrote, you will soon realize that accuracy deserves that you read it to say that they know they cannot collect from a dead person... and therefore, their debt will be written off...

The only circumstance where the debt would normally be written off for BOTH borrower and his cosigner is where they are married... and the breadwinner dies.... and then only until they can collect from the estate.

What you are selling is that YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT IF EITHER DIES, THE OTHER WILL HAVE THE LOAN DISCHARGED. There is absolutely no reason that would happen. The government nor the bank needs to be so empathetic as to write off loans when only one of two encumbered people dies. Yes, they can write it off to the estate of the deceased... and get kudos from us all for being so empathetic... but why give away the store to the borrower whose cosigner dies?

Senseless is a better description of your assumption.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I am assuming nothing.

Key word: POSSIBILITY.

Read from the site:

Can [COLOR=magenta](not IS)[/COLOR] a student loan be cancelled if the primary borrower, cosigner, or student is deceased? [COLOR=magenta](notice how they list all three together in the same sentence, making no distinction between the financial responsibilities of any of them?)[/COLOR]

A student loan may (not WILL) be eligible for discharge (cancellation) [COLOR=red]due to death[/COLOR] [COLOR=magenta](notice there is no specification of WHOSE death)[/COLOR]depending on the loan program type, guarantor, or the terms of the loan promissory note. [COLOR=magenta](notice also it doesn't say it DEPENDS on if it is the COSIGNER, or STUDENT, indicating a different POSSIBILITY for each?)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=magenta](who are the possibilities? Read on) [/COLOR]

What information does Sallie Mae need about a deceased [COLOR=red]borrower[/COLOR]? [COLOR=magenta](notice the distinct absence of ANYONE ELSE mentioned here? It doesn't say CO-SIGNER--they used the term BORROWER to include BORROWER, COSIGNER OR STUDENT)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=red]When notifying us about the death of the primary borrower, cosigner, or student on an account, you will be asked to provide some or all of the following information for our records:[/COLOR]

These contracts are written with a great deal of specificity. If the death of ANY three of those mentioned did not raise the POSSIBILITY of discharge, it would state that only the death of the BORROWER DISCHARGES ( not just discharges that singular persons responsibility ) the debt.

What IS missing here is an language of specificity which would make you think other than what is written---IT IS POSSIBLE.

Do I assume that is how it will be? I have no idea.

BUT if they meant that the responsibility of the DECEASED PARTY ONLY is discharged, they would have said so.

Semantics ALL THREE are written in the same sentence and referred to as BORROWER (i.e. EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE PARTY). How would it be fair to say , "Hey, look , student dies, you don't have to pay Mr Cosigner"--when the premise is they are ALL EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE. But if it is the other way around, the STUDENT is still responsible?

No, this raises the POSSIBILITY that when ANY of the three parties they name together and refer to as BORROWER dies, the DEBT IS DISCHARGED, not "then the deceased is removed from financial responsibility".[COLOR=red]That isn't the DEBT being discharged---that is one persons fiscal responsibility regarding the debt being forgiven[/COLOR]. It doesn't say that.

I have no way to predict or ASSUME what they will do. My point is THEY, by calling all three ( student, cosigner, primary borrower) the same term BORROWER, imply EQUAL culpability, as though the three are interchangable. Therefore if one dies, there is a possibility of DISCHARGE OF THE DEBT ( not simply a release on one party).

Where does it say ONE party can be released? It says DEBT MAY BE DISCHARGED and then mentioned death of [COLOR=red]ANY[/COLOR] OF THOSE THREE.

[COLOR=red]* IF DEATH AUTOMATICALLY DISCHARGED ALL DEBT, THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR PROBATE*[/COLOR] I cannot speak to how they do it in YOUR country, but in MY country, PROBATE is PROOF that debt lives on after death.

NO WHERE does it say that the DECEASED IS RELEASED or has HIS/HER obligation DISCHARGED. It says the DEBT (PERIOD) CAN BE DISCHARGED.

Don't add to it. It doesn't say that.

KEY WORD: POSSIBILITY. Your entire posting says I said the debt will be discharged. I did not. I said it is a POSSIBILITY. There is equally a chance it may not be.

POSSIBLY. MAYBE. PERHAPS. Based on what? THE DOCUMENTS they ask for.

Bottom line: NO where does it individualize and compartmentalize the responsibilities of the primary or the cosigner --they are BOTH called "BORROWER". NO distinction between the two--like you made calling it "their" debt individually "cannot collect from a dead person... and therefore, their debt will be written off..." which would lead a rational person to think that if the cosigner dies just HIS name is taken off and they continue to collect (although they could legally).

You are superimposing what makes sense to YOU over what is actually WRITTEN. Lets stick with what is WRITTEN. BORROWER is singular. Means PRIMARY AND COSIGNER. You don't think they could have been more specific if they wanted to? Of course --its a federal agency for Christsakes. They could have driven it into the ground with the "therefore"s and "Whyfores". They could have said DEATH MEANS THE DECEASED IS NOT ENCUMBERED ANY LONGER, but that's not what they said.

But, they made it very simple.

IT READS:

'DEBT IS ELIGIBLE (MAY) be discharged', not 'THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DECEASED IS DISCHARGED'.


[COLOR=red]The government nor the bank needs to be so empathetic as to write off loans when only one of two encumbered people dies[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]Umm--thats exactly what they DO say-and that was the original question in this thread---is the cosigner responsible if student dies. The answer is possibly NO. IF the death of the primary does not automatically encumber the Cosigner, and if they are raising the possibility of the debt being discharged due to the death of the PRIMARY, then the reverse HAS to be true since ( ready ?) THEY USE THE TERMS INTERCHANGABLY. NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO. THEY refer to them BOTH as BORROWERS. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]If that sentence immediately above in red is true, then why are you (finally) agreeing that if the PRIMARY dies the CO may not have to pay?[/COLOR]


And I have no idea , again, what SPOUSES have to do with this thread.

NOTHING. SPOUSES are not mentioned.

RELEVANCE?
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