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Old 07-17-2008, 10:10 PM
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Arrow Unlawful Conduct?

Hello,

Today I was stopped by the local police and had my first negative experience with law enforcement. This is what happened: I was walking home from my friend's house at around 1am; wearing dark clothes, a backpack, and a baseball cap. This is a nice area with what seems like a nonexistent crime rate. As I was crossing the bridge, a vehicle pulled up behind me with red flashing lights. Both officers got out and approached me by shining a flashlight directly into my face. One of them asked what I was doing and then to take out my identification (I had left my wallet at home). I told them everything about how a few buddies and I were playing basketball and so on. At this point they started becoming rude and basically accusing me of lying. I took offense and sorta started arguing. They then asked me to take off my backpack and to put my hands up, because they were going to pat me down for weapons (by the way: I'm a young Caucasian male). After that, they told me to open up my backpack. I refused (only because I didn't like the way they were treating me). Things became uglier and by the end, I was in handcuffs and sitting at the back of the cruiser while they were searching through my stuff. Eventually, they let me go and told me to co-operate next time or else I would be arrested for... "something" (I forget what it was ...?). Anyway, for the record, I wasn't rude (they were!) and I had nothing besides a change of clothes and a few books in my backpack.

So, this brings me to the question: What are my rights in those kinds of situations?

Furthermore, I do realize that I may have looked suspicious, however, what is probable cause for searching through someone's things?

Thanks!

Last edited by Richard89 : 07-17-2008 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:20 PM
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I live in Canada (Toronto).
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard89 View Post
Hello,

Today I was stopped by the local police and had my first negative experience with law enforcement. This is what happened: I was walking home from my friend's house at around 1am; wearing dark clothes, a backpack, and a baseball cap. This is a nice area with what seems like a nonexistent crime rate. As I was crossing the bridge, a vehicle pulled up behind me with red flashing lights. Both officers got out and approached me by shining a flashlight directly into my face. One of them asked what I was doing and then to take out my identification (I had left my wallet at home). I told them everything about how a few buddies and I were playing basketball and so on. At this point they started becoming rude and basically accusing me of lying. I took offense and sorta started arguing. They then asked me to take off my backpack and to put my hands up, because they were going to pat me down for weapons (by the way: I'm a young Caucasian male). After that, they told me to open up my backpack. I refused (only because I didn't like the way they were treating me). Things became uglier and by the end, I was in handcuffs and sitting at the back of the cruiser while they were searching through my stuff. Eventually, they let me go and told me to co-operate next time or else I would be arrested for... "something" (I forget what it was ...?). Anyway, for the record, I wasn't rude (they were!) and I had nothing besides a change of clothes and a few books in my backpack.

So, this brings me to the question: What are my rights in those kinds of situations?

Furthermore, I do realize that I may have looked suspicious, however, what is probable cause for searching through someone's things?

Thanks!
Rule number one--regardless of the country in which you reside--NEVER cop an attitude with a cop. Arguing with them does two things: 1. hands them carte blanche to search, arrest, etc. based on your belligerence alone (credible threat) 2. Makes them think you are hiding something. You admit you became combative, then say you weren't rude. Which one was it? You were nicely and politely argumentative?

I am happy to live in an area where, if a hooded person is walking down the street at an unusual hour, the police will notice, and stop and check to make sure there is nothing untoward happening. You had the ability to stop the process at any time by your attitude. If they are rude---that doesn't mean YOU can be rude. They have handcuffs and the final word. YOU should be the epitome of graciousness, make them feel safe ( they risk getting killed daily) and the benefit is two fold--you get to go home without being arrested and you diffused a potentially volatile situation.

THEN, the next day, contact the superior officer of the police officer in question and express your concerns to them. You see, there is a right way and a wrong way to do something--and ANY grudge match, regardless of how "wronged" you feel will only end in making it worse FOR you. So now if you appeal to their superior officer, THEY have grounds that appears to make their claim legitimate----your being combative, rude, or argumentative ( sorta---was how you worded it).

I lived in Canada for a short time, three summers, but obviously, this doesn't qualify me to comment on Canadian law since I never broke the law, and at the time, was only in college. But, I suspect what I have said is true of ANY police in any locale---a proverbial <Yanno what> contest will only end in YOU getting the worse end of the deal.

They had probable cause because anyone at all roaming an empty street that time of night with a backpack on and a hood IS cause for concern---NOT assumption a crime has been committed, but it IS probable cause---and that is all they needed to stop you. I am not attempting to justify what the police did---I am merely trying to express to you how it works. If you wanna challenge them, argue with them, you ARE going to lose. Period. And the answer to your question is, regrettably, they were acting within the perimeters of the law ( American law, anyway) regarding probable cause. The standard of probable cause is different on the road, street, or in a car than in a house, because there is not the same presumption of privacy.

Next time( if this happens again--and I hope it won't) bend over backward to be nice--grit your teeth if needs be--and THEN if you have a complaint address it through proper channels. If these officers were acting inappropriately, you lost a good opportunity to draw it to the attention of a superior officer who can penalize them or at least, do something about it as a result of your attitude.

Tough luck. But, unfortunately, that's how it works.
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