Probation

Good evening,
I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for my question, but if not, I'm sure someone will tell me where to go! Our grand-daughter has been arrested and jailed for a "probation violation". She is a divorced mother with a four year old son. She was arrested a few days ago, but will not go before a judge for another hearing until the 26th. of this month. She just had gall bladder surgery and also had a stomach by-pass procedure a couple of years ago. She is on medication for blood pressure and a heart condition among other things. The judge and her public defender ordered that she be given her medications as required. They refuse to do so saying they are too busy. They give her Prozact instead. She is a "basket case! We don't think she will survive! She has been crying constantly night and day since she was first arrested. She also had been following the conditions of her probation and paying the amount the court originally determined, and was to begin school this Monday, the 18th. Now she has lost her job and can not begin school. She had planned to be a nurse.
Thank you for your time and consideration,
RichardeL

A few questions for you. First of all, who told you the judge "ordered" this? Also, the public defender categorically EVER "order" anything.

Also, you didn't say if she is still in custody or not. If she is still in custody, was she denied release? If so, why?

Having said that, I think I can offer you some hope, as a matter of LAW (i.e. what laws govern those who detain and care for defendants) NOT as a matter of personal legal advice that pertains to you in particular. Do you understand the difference?

The reason I asked who told you the judge "ordered" her to be given her medication is because this is not something a judge would have to order in the normal scope and sequence of his or her judicial day. The reason for that, simply, is covered in basic civil liability instruction.

The Constitution grants us, as citizens, certain rights, among which are freedom of association, freedom of movement. Before someone can be denied these ( i.e. jailed, detained, etc) a burden of proof must be met that the person is, indeed, the one who committed the crime, yada yada. This explains the question of why---if someone is innocent until PROVEN guilty, why do they sit in a jail cell awaiting trial.

I said all of that to say, when the judicial system takes away, even temporarily, a Constitutional right ( freedom of movement--i.e. jail) they automatically assume a burden of reasonable care for that person. Now, if a person, a detainee in a jail or prison, hangs himself with a bed sheet ( an item normally found in his surroundings) those in charge at the jail are not necessarily NEGLIGENT. The question is reasonableness. Did the officers, and those in authority exercise a reasonable duty of care? They *could* be negligent in a suicide if they knew of previous attempts, or were ordered to have watch every fifteen minutes and didn't do it, etc. But, they are not automatically negligent.

In cases where it is known that a person has an illness and is on medication, and you say the judge, in the least, made people aware of her physical need, and there is a blatant disregard of her physical condition and she suffers as a result, is a basis for a tremendous lawsuit. The MOST important thing you can do is be able to prove people, dates, times, etc. and you must be able to medically document the medication and or lack of she is taking. Merely saying so isn't enough. I would also, if you feel able, get durable power of attorney over your grand-daughter. This will give you the legal authority to act in her stead. This means you can obtain her medical records and ask her physician to create a letter/document with his signature outlining the criticalness of your daughter having this medication.

Now, if she is out on release, and is taking her medication as directed, perhaps she is out of immediate medical danger. You might, though, have a lawsuit against those who failed to give her the medication, etc. , but be advised you would have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence <the standard in a civil trial, as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt--the standard in a criminal trial> that the failure of your daughter to have her medication adversely damaged her.

Since I don't know if she is still in custody or not, I don't know what else to tell you. If she is still in custody and is not receiving her medication, I would go to an attorney immediately and have him ask for an emergency hearing and relay this information to the judge that sentenced her to be detained. If you cannot afford an attorney ( preferably a personal injury attorney, as opposed to a criminal attorney) , try the public defenders office---or even, if all else fails, go to the prosecutors office --the one that sentenced her--and make him aware of the situation. However, this really is an important issue---and handling it by yourself is not advisable. You need for the powers that be to take you seriously. You need to respond to what you describe as an egregiously dangerous situation with force and in the right manner. This means the best attorney you can find.

Good luck.

Have either your or her public defender determined who appears to have replaced her medication or signed the order for the Prozac? I believe your daughter's regular physicians should be contacted immediately. Regardless of whether she's taking her regular prescriptions as required, her physician should be notified that someone has added to her chemical prescriptions .. the combination of (prescription) drugs still in her system must be taken into consideration. Her primary care physician must be made aware of the new changes and it's possible that his/her professional input may help lend some weight to your situation. If that physician is willing to help, (and I doubt few would refuse) personally I would persist in getting someone's attention there. If the public defender can't get the legal system's attention, there are no laws prohibiting you as a private citizen from contacting either the acting head of the facility where she's currently been detained or your city's prosecuting attorney (for examples) and demanding (if you have to) that the judge's order be carried out.

Understand this is not legal advice here, merely a suggestion. Were I in the same situation, I wouldn't stop "pestering" until I knew for certain my child or grandchild's health was assured, regardless of his/her physical location. (Quite honestly, I'm surprised anyone remotely associated with the legal profession would allow this to happen. At the very least, the word "negligence" comes to mind here. Accepting your post at face value, of course.)

You may find more helpful legal answers by posting your case directly to www.legalmatch.com. Unfortunately, for the moment, there don't appear to be any licensed attorneys responding on this particular forum .. hopefully that will change soon. In the meantime, I can only suggest you consider some of the options I've mentioned.

Good luck to you. Your grand-daughter's very lucky in my opinion to have such obvious family devotion. (I'll forward additional suggestions via private message above to save time/space on this forum.)

You said, "Have either your or her public defender determined who appears to have replaced her medication or signed the order for the Prozac? I believe your daughter's regular physicians should be contacted immediately. Regardless of whether she's taking her regular prescriptions as required, her physician should be notified that someone has added to her chemical prescriptions .. the combination of (prescription) drugs still in her system must be taken into consideration. Her primary care physician must be made aware of the new changes and it's possible that his/her professional input may help lend some weight to your situation."

My posting, written previously to yours, stated, " .....get durable power of attorney over your grand-daughter. This will give you the legal authority to act in her stead. This means you can obtain her medical records and ask her physician to create a letter/document with his signature outlining the criticalness of your daughter having this medication."

Sounds the same to me--well, if you ignore the fact that the poster has no legal right to discuss his granddaughters care with anyone since he is not her legal guardian and you also ignore the fact that it is obvious who changed her medication. The medical staff at the facility where she is presumably detained.

Then, you said, "If that physician is willing to help, (and I doubt few would refuse) personally I would persist in getting someone's attention there. If the public defender can't get the legal system's attention, there are no laws prohibiting you as a private citizen from contacting either the acting head of the facility where she's currently been detained or your city's prosecuting attorney (for examples) and demanding (if you have to) that the judge's order be carried out."

My posting, written previously to yours, stated, "If you cannot afford an attorney ( preferably a personal injury attorney, as opposed to a criminal attorney) , try the public defenders office---or even, if all else fails, go to the prosecutors office --the one that sentenced her--and make him aware of the situation."

Sounds the same to me.

You stated, "Understand this is not legal advice here, merely a suggestion. Were I in the same situation, I wouldn't stop "pestering" until I knew for certain my child or grandchild's health was assured, regardless of his/her physical location. (Quite honestly, I'm surprised anyone remotely associated with the legal profession would allow this to happen. At the very least, the word "negligence" comes to mind here."

My posting, written previously to yours, stated, "In cases where it is known that a person has an illness and is on medication, and you say the judge, in the least, made people aware of her physical need, and there is a blatant disregard of her physical condition and she suffers as a result, is a basis for a tremendous lawsuit."

Then you state, "Unfortunately, for the moment, there don't appear to be any licensed attorneys responding on this particular forum .. hopefully that will change soon. In the meantime, I can only suggest you consider some of the options I've mentioned. "

Does the irony of your casting aspersions on the legitimacy of MY posting escape you, when you did little more than copy mine?

WAS there anything accurate you wanted to add to your succinct rewording of MY posting?

Lets consider the things you suggested that were NOT included in my posting.

First of all, lets say the gentle poster followed your suggestion to "contact the acting head of the facility ...and demand" that the judges order be carried out. Two things come to mind.

First of all, how will he KNOW if the judges order is being carried out yet ( especially since he alleges they disregarded it completely to begin with ) and secondly, if they do NOT enforce it, it could be days, or weeks before he finds out--days or weeks that could make the difference between LIFE or DEATH.

Now. Contrast that suggestion with THIS one.

Have your attorney, (possibly public defender, as I said in my first posting), or even you, if you wish, and ask for an emergency hearing to show cause. The purpose of a hearing to show cause is to inform the court of a possible violation--i.e. contempt of court ( I adore that phrase!) If indeed the judge DID ORDER, on the record , that she be given this medication and she did NOT receive it, a hearing to show cause (contempt hearing)will REQUIRE those caring for her to appear and account for their actions. This is the best way to make CERTAIN she receives care in the quickest possible manner. Merely going to the prison and "demanding" something is not nearly as effective, for many reasons, as a hearing to show cause. First reason: your grand daughter is not a minor child and you are not her guardian. She is an adult. Secondly, you have no legal right to access her medical records, even if she says for you to. The "powers that be" also have no legal compulsion to discuss her care with you since you are not her parent or legal guardian. And thirdly, you have no way of knowing if your 'demands' are being carried out.

Therefore, as I stated, without POWER of ATTORNEY, you are spinning your wheels. Simply make the court aware of the situation ( either by yourself OR by an attorney) and ask the judge for an emergency hearing. The purpose of this hearing is two fold. First of all it will clearly show what has happened in your granddaughters care since the authorities changed her medication (since, obviously, the doctor who changed it is the one working in the facility in which she was detained, DURRR) and they will have to answer for allegedly failing to comply with a court order. It it will also provide solid legal grounds for recourse if the judges order is (again) not followed.

Those who are in this line of work (detention and care of prisoners) understand clearly their liability. I suspect a hearing with a judge calling them into question and asking them to explain their actions would carry a lot more weight than a relative storming around "demanding" something.

That would be my non-European educated opinion.

please focus on helping our posters not attacking each other.