Ponzi Scheme

Yes I know its not smart to get involved in these (at least now I do), but I was involved a year or so ago. Today I got a letter from an attorney stating that what I was involved in then was a ponzi scheme and they demand repayment of money we supposedly made. Am I legally obligated to pay this? They say that the SEC has deemed this internet site a ponzi scheme and they are collecting this money in order to pay people that lost money. I also do not agree with the amount they show that I made. What should I do?

I had to laugh when I read this. This is a perfect example of "what goes around, comes around". What you are talking about is a criminal enterprise.

First of all, you have no proof that the "attorney" who wrote to you actually IS an attorney, unless, of course, you have researched and verified their credentials. I suspect there is a good possibility that whomever the letter is from is simply capitalizing on YOUR fraudulent act---hoping YOU are stupid enough to actually send them money.

I would contact an attorney--not only to limit your criminal liability, but to assist you in reporting the "attorney" who contacted you, if he in fact, turns out to be a criminal as well. My feeling is the LAW would contact you, or the SEC directly---do they state "We have been hired by the SEC to collect this money"? The way you state it, they only say the "SEC HAS INDENTIFIED THIS SITE AS A PONZI SCHEME". Their letter should include contact numbers and names of people to verify the fact that they are who they say. Again, my feeling is they are not. Also, do they say WHO they are collecting the money for? Who is the money being given to? Just because the SEC has identified a fraudulent site doesn't mean THEY are the group hired to collect this money and redistribute it to the victims. "Ponzi" Schemes

Another site, this one written by attorneys who ARE involved in the collecting of money: Weston Rutledge Receiverships. At the very least, you need to consider the criminal element of the acts YOU have committed--ignorance of the law IS no excuse, and seek legal assistance accordingly if for no other reason than to protect yourself.

I am also curious---since you admit you knew that what you did was illegal, what have you done to make amends and return the money to the victims you stole it from? It is hard, from a criminal standpoint, to believe that you didn't know what you were doing was illegal from its inception since you did nothing to correct the situation when you "realized" it was illegal. People lacking mens rea (criminal intent--necessary for the prosecution of a crime ) attempt to make amends for wrong doing once they are made aware of it. Did you?

If you're questioning the validity of the complaints, you can check with the SEC itself to see if any complaints were or have been filed against the company/web site. (U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (Home Page).) You can also contact a sister organization, The North American Securities Administration Association for a state specific contact list to also check on a state level. NASAA should provide a name, address and telephone number for the office in your state. Obviously, I'd advise keeping any inquiries as "generic" as possible.

Even that's no guarantee. Assuming you've researched both the author of the letter itself and the validity of the clients and claims involved, I'd strongly suggest you contact a good securities attorney in your area as soon as possible. He/she can further research the identity and validity of the other parties and after listening to your "particulars," can best advise you how to proceed.

A quiet "head's up" here: information/statements disclosed on the Internet can be used in legal proceedings, particularly on a federal level. Understand I neither condone OR condemn the actions you've posted (that's for a court of law to decide,) .. I think you need to be aware that your personal information, IP addresses, etc can be disclosed by any web site to a court as a result of legal action. Assuming the attorney/letter are in fact geniuine, you should already been aware of that ... you've already been "located." I think you need to exercise a bit of caution in making any further specific statements or in answering specific questions here on the Internet (or anywhere else, for that matter) until you've retained adequate legal counsel. If any part of your post is even remotely correct (do NOT respond to that, please,) you're already aware "all is not as it seems" .. particularly on the Internet.

I've forwarded a little additional information via private message above. Good luck.

I think you need to be aware that your personal information, IP addresses, etc can be disclosed by any web site to a court as a result of legal action. Assuming the attorney/letter are in fact geniuine, you should already been aware of that ... you've already been "located."

Inaccuracy. The curse of my existence. A misunderstanding of the law regarding Internet crime has led to the downfall of many an imaginary online empire.

The REALITY is, there is only TWO ways for "the law" to obtain your personal information from a web site.

They CANNOT, as a matter of law, get YOUR personal information from ANY website or webmaster, WITHOUT a establishing probable cause, relevance to their investigation (i.e. is it possible to obtain the information another way?) and without getting a subpoena, one which you have ample time to quash.

Now, if they are mindless amateurs, and know your user name, such as mine is "gentlegrace" which I use in many locations, they can fill their days between photoshopping pictures and eating doritos by searching the Internet for that name ad nauseam, and they can follow you into a forum you attend, such as has been done to me in this very forum. Fancy that. However, this does NOT establish your identity firmly enough for anything obtained here to be admissible in court. They cannot prove who is actually using the user name, nor can they prove your identity, merely by a user name. Therefore, if an investigator reads here your "admission" that you participated in this scheme, there is no way that could be admissible in court because it is impossible to determine who actually was sitting at the computer doing the typing. This doesn't come close to "beyond a reasonable doubt" ( the standard for a criminal trial ) or "preponderance of the evidence" ( the standard in a civil trial).

But, to unequivocally state "the law HAS located you via the Internet" is not only absurd, it is unlawful. Anyone who tells you otherwise probably lives in super secret bunkers funded by proponents of the now mostly defunct Patriot Act, making web pages about other peoples houses, lives, and children.

Legal authorities must establish a relationship between your computer activity and a crime. Note: The letter you received, if you quoted it properly, is addressing you from a CIVIL standpoint. A lawyer anywhere doesn't have the authority to arrest you or press charges against you for a government agency.

Since you HAVE been contacted by a presumed attorney ( if they are indeed who they say they are ) there is no NEED for them to have your computer records--they have already identified you by other means ( obviously, you got the letter, right?) Unless they are launching a criminal investigation via the authorities ( not on their own--that isn't the function of attorneys, per se ) they don't NEED your computer or records. AND, if at any time they decide that they do, they must SUBPOENA your personal information and YOU will be made aware of this and will be given an opportunity to quash to subpoena. It is a lengthy process---the "law", regardless of how many police reports you file, does NOT have the authority to simply TAKE your personal information from ANY web site.

Also, a note about IP numbers. If you are on dial up, your IP number is static. IP numbers on DSL or cable connections are dynamic--they change. Every time you sign on, it changes. The only time you "get caught" is, hypothetically speaking, when you are using a program illegally harvesting OTHER people's IP numbers and YOU click on your own link--thereby leaving your OWN IP number ( lmao--I'll NEVER get over that). Hoisted on your own petard. *note* this part of the tutorial brought to you by my own "Jenius" whose skill and computer prowess far exceeds my own.

Bottom line: NO ONE working in a law enforcement capacity has a right to your personal identifying information on line (obtained from a third party, such as a web master) without a COURT order establishing relevance, probable cause, and without a subpoena. YOU will be notified of the subpoena (since it requests priviledged information) and you will be given time to quash it before it ever darkens the door of a court room.

This posting brought to you by fans of Marty Feldman. Long Live him and his dearly departed son, Bebe Drew.