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Old 05-11-2010, 12:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Are braces medical or cosmetic?

I would like to know if Im paying half of ex wifes medical insurance and she takes my daughter to dentist and spends $1200 and says its not included in insurance you owe $600 then turns around in less than a week and puts braces on my daughter and says you owe half of that(like 4000$). I was not envolved with any discussions or decisions about anything. My question I think should be is non insured dentist costs and orthodontist cost medical or cosmetic and do I owe the money to ex?
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Mostly I've heard that orthodontic appointments are not considered a medical expense, however, if it's for your daughter and your ex-isn't trying to pull a fast one (i.e. just keep the money)...why wouldn't you help her out? You may be able to wriggle your way out of paying if they weren't prescribed by the dentist but you would have to check with your custody agreement and state laws to be sure.

Last edited by CommonCents; 05-11-2010 at 03:38 PM.
 
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think it's sad when people who failed at their relationships make their children suffer. Even if it was simply a procedure to make your child feel better about themselves and better their quality of life, why not pay half? The mother is paying half. Now, if she were asking you to pay ALL of the bill, that would be different. But she is willing to invest in your child---shouldn't you be?

You are more focused on your pride (I wasn't consulted!!) than the bigger picture that this is a tangible way to make an appreciable difference in your childs life and express your love and concern for her. You are missing the bigger picture---and what is really important. You would really refuse to pay half and have your child KNOW because you weren't ASKED or consulted that you aren't pitching in?

Why do dads of rich kids pay child support? Look at actresses who have millions of dollars in their own right. Why do the fathers of their kids pay twenty and thirty thousand dollars a MONTH for child support? It doesn't take that much to raise a child--I know because I'm a widow raising seven. The COURT recognizes that a child NEEDS to know their parent (either mother or father) is participating in their life in a tangible way. Most couples can't get past the "I'm not giving that woman another penny that I don't have to!" and miss the fact its the KID that suffers.

What a great opportunity for you to do something for your daughter--something her MOTHER is doing voluntarily---something that can make a huge difference in your kids life for many years to come. Change your perspective.....it will change how you feel about helping out your kid......
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Old 05-12-2010, 03:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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To play devil's advocate, how do we know whether the dental work was necessary or superfluous? How do we know that the child wanted the braces to make her feel better (most kids hate them)? How do we know that the OP can afford unnecessary luxuries? How do we know that Mom didn't have the work done without consultation specifically to spite the OP? How do we know that Mom isn't purposely bleeding the OP dry by continually coming up with new and unnecessary expenses for him to share?
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Old 05-12-2010, 03:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Who cares? What difference does it make with regard to the point of my posting?

None of your "guesses" remotely relates to my point which is that he has a way to make a real difference in his kids life---whether she wanted braces or not. I'd dare say a lot of kids won't want what is going to be beneficial for them someday---so we just don't make them do it? "Its ok, honey, you don't have to go to school......" That's ridiculous. Even if she DIDNT want them you can bet having a beautiful smile will make a big difference in her life someday whether or not she cares about it at the moment.

Bottom line---ASSuming the mother is merely "sticking it" to the dad isn't remotely believable since most single struggling parents don't shell out HALF the money--in this case--thousands---just to "stick it" to dear old pop who is miffed he wasn't consulted.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GentleGrace View Post
Who cares? What difference does it make with regard to the point of my posting?

None of your "guesses" remotely relates to my point which is that he has a way to make a real difference in his kids life
I wasn't guessing, I was throwing out possibilities that make your attack on the OP unwarranted. You're just guessing, however, that the braces will make a real difference in his kid's life. It's not unheard of for people to have braces to correct relatively minor imperfections. Moreover, you're ignoring the impact that the expense has on the OP. The opportunity cost for him may be great, and it may outweigh the benefit to his kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GentleGrace View Post
Bottom line---ASSuming the mother is merely "sticking it" to the dad isn't remotely believable since most single struggling parents don't shell out HALF the money--in this case--thousands---just to "stick it" to dear old pop who is miffed he wasn't consulted.
Nobody made that assumption (which would be stupid). But you are making the opposite assumption.

Here's the actual bottom line: You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You may be correct about everything you assumed, but you may be incorrect about it all as well. You simply have no basis to judge the OP or form any conclusions about his situation ... of course that didn't stop you.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ah, yes, you--the great defender of the downtrodden (eyeroll)...... don't like how I address people, so YOU address me the same way thinking you are affecting some change? roflmao Using what you see as my attacking a poster as an excuse to attack me---wow...think for yourself much? Of course not. You're a sheep my dear.
Explaining how being WILLING to focus on ANY POSSIBLE GOOD (IS there ANY bad for the kid in this scenario--even if it fixed even a "minor" flaw??) is the point and not his pride because he wasn't "asked".
NONE of the "possibilities" you mentioned have any relevance to the fact that this parent has a chance to make a difference in his childs life in a tangible way. Even if every "guess" you threw out WAS possible, it in no way changes my point.
Parents who break apart their marriages and let their children suffer as a result often do--it would seem you are no different. Of course you see my comments as an attack since I am politically incorrect and pointing out how kids suffer when adults are not men and women of their word.
Lets say it makes NO difference whatsoever in the childs life if they have a minor imperfection fixed with braces ( and as a gal that's been dating a dentist for some time, let me assure you braces are NOT necessary for "minor imperfections"). The fact his PARENTS WORKED TOGETHER to do something FOR him , whether or not "necessary" would yield a greater result in his life than straight teeth ever could.
I did NOT criticize the poster for being seemingly unwilling to pay for the braces. I merely pointed out the OPPORTUNITY He had to do good for his child. Your response? Eh, its NOT good--it may just be a minor imperfection. I pray to God you have no children with that attitude.
On behalf of those of us who made a commitment to our families, marriages and children, let me assure you it matters. Straight teeth change the kids life? Maybe, maybe not. Parents who set aside their differences and act in the best interest of the child? LIFE CHANGING. As I stated, if the other parent was sticking him with the WHOLE bill, it would be different. I would say what a shame she is manipulating and using the child to be petty and vindictive. But she is willing to pay half---what a great opportunity to step up to the plate and forget he "wasn't asked", and meet the mother half way. If the other parent believes in whatever it is that is happening in the childs life (whether music lessons, soccer, braces, etc) enough to put his or her hard earned money into the venture, to NOT step up to the plate and pay the other half sends a powerful message to the child who doesn't understand why it matters if daddy was "asked" first or not).

Parents setting aside their foolishness long enough to do something--ANYTHING--a birthday party, a graduation, a skating party, a bowling outing, a family reunion-IS the point---all those things aren't going to make a "difference" in their lives if you are measuring it by your scale. BUT the fact two people came together to do something for the child WILL make a difference in the rest of his life. Id so much rather grasp this opportunity than have the kid wonder what Daddy had to do with his money that was more important then fixing even a "minor imperfection", if it was within his wherewithall to do so.

Only a fool would consider it an 'attack' when a poster is encouraged to go above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to his child.

Sad. Very sad. Of course, I didn't expect that to make sense to another "weekend father".
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmba View Post
You're just guessing, however, that the braces will make a real difference in his kid's life. It's not unheard of for people to have braces to correct relatively minor imperfections. Moreover, you're ignoring the impact that the expense has on the OP. The opportunity cost for him may be great, and it may outweigh the benefit to his kid.
Where did I say definitively it would make a "real difference" in his kids life having braces? Let me quote what I did say. I called it something that "CAN" make a huge difference (the use of the word CAN implies POSSIBILITY).... I also referred to the reality it COULD just be something to make the kid feel better about themselves. Nothing absolute in that statement. STOP projecting your own narrowmindedness into each posting. My words are very clear. Your opinion of MY opinion is irrelevant.
[COLOR=#ff00ff][COLOR=black]Outweigh the benefit to the kid? Quite possibly the most tragically ignorant thing you have said. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

I submit to you that NO amount of money outweighs the "benefit" to a child who knows this parents set aside their differences and acted in doing something that THEY felt COULD possibily make a difference in his life in the future. Straight teeth may not make one bit of difference. BUT the fact two people acted in a manner they felt was in his best interest? Well, there IS no price you can put on that.

Why do people give two year olds birthday parties? They don't really care about the cake, presents, etc. They will NEVER look back and say, "Yes, I am an accomplished (insert profession) because my parents gave me a birthday party when I was two"......... of course not. BUT what they DO learn and remember is that they MATTERED. And that they were LOVED.

Outweigh the benefit to the kid? I'd give every TOOTH In my head if there was a possibility , however remote, it would make a difference in my child's life. What parent, besides you, wouldn't?

That this escapes you really is a tragedy of epic proportions.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Good lord, your posts are so long-winded. I didn't bother reading them, but I have no doubt that they're the usual blathering wrapped around more assumptions.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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OMG that is so funny--READ what YOU WROTE....just read it!!
Point of your FIRST POSTING: Grace made unfair assumptions about the poster.

Point of your SECOND POSTING: I am not reading Grace's postings, but merely ASSUMING what is in them and commenting accordingly.
CONCLUSION: I am ENTITLED to DUPLICATE the same behavior I am objecting to someone else doing.
Do you see ANY IRONY in that, Skipper??
How silly--of COURSE you read it. I'm WHY you are here. And, I'm not sure how else to explain this, Father of the Year, but this is a FORUM. It's ALL about words.
How disingenuous of you to come to a place that is MADE FOR WORDS, voluntarily respond to MY posting, then complain about ---well, getting a RESPONSE.
You're a throwback to my first grade teaching days----a six year old complaining about someone ELSES behavior, then feeling entitled to DUPLICATE the bad behavior they say they object to.

I didn't expect you'd actually formulate a response because there ISNT one.

Broken homes are so commonplace these days, it is actually not politically correct to express an opinion that goes against the status quo of everyone's "disposable family" mentality. To suggest that the ADULTS who created this broken family are responsible for the subsequent damage done to the innocent children caught in the fray is HUGELY unpopular. It does not, however, mean it is not true.

I wonder whose idea it was to SHUFFLE kids from one parents house to the other at the parents convenience. How about this--how about the KIDS live in ONE house and each week the parents MOVE in and out, upending their own lives instead of the kids! Ah, I didn't think so. You see its ALL about the PARENTS and their lives and what is easiest for THEM. No consequences--I'll choose a person I NOW say is (fill in the adjective with words like 'abusive', 'controling', 'cruel') CHOOSE that person to be the father/mother of my child--and when I realize I do not have the capacity for commitment, (or find someone hotter/richer/smarter) dump the relationship and shuffle the kid in and out of court for YEARS, refusing to PAY (for example) HALF of a kids braces unless I have an iron clad guarantee it is *absolutely necessary* and a "worthwhile" investment of my money, thereby making MY relationship the responsibility of the TAXPAYERS, GOVERNMENT and COURT system. Oh, and of course, BLAME anyone who DARES to suggest this isn't how families are supposed to be nurtured, maintained, and cared for.

No, I didn't expect you'd have anything to say. Hopefully the time you have saved NOT reading (cough, cough) my posting will allow you to not respond further and actually spend some time with YOUR children---well, yanno, if its your weekend to see them, that is.
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Last edited by GentleGrace; 05-13-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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