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Old 03-08-2009, 01:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Martial Arts Contract Religion Dispute

Hello, I am new to this forum but had a question regarding a martial arts contract that i signed for a year. I was wondering if there was a way out of the contract, minus financially not being able to go anymore because of a bad hand i was dealt, the school is very religious and has nothing in the contract about having to be exposed to buddist teachings and weekly worship. It is a very strange situation and is sort of uncomfortable as I do not subscribe to any sort of religion. The rest of the contract is pretty standard, the only way out is to relocate 25 miles from the school, or injury. Any suggestions?
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Old 03-08-2009, 02:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aflow01 View Post
Hello, I am new to this forum but had a question regarding a martial arts contract that i signed for a year. I was wondering if there was a way out of the contract, minus financially not being able to go anymore because of a bad hand i was dealt, the school is very religious and has nothing in the contract about having to be exposed to buddist teachings and weekly worship. It is a very strange situation and is sort of uncomfortable as I do not subscribe to any sort of religion. The rest of the contract is pretty standard, the only way out is to relocate 25 miles from the school, or injury. Any suggestions?

It is hard to answer your question without seeing the entire contract, but it is usually common knowledge that martial arts is a deeply spiritual endeavor. I am not certain that you have to 'ascribe' to their religion. Learning about it, hearing it, etc. doesn't mean that you have to internalize it and make it a personal spiritual experience. A lot of people learn about other religions without being assimilated into them. I believe it is critical to the performance of martial arts to understand how and why it works.

If your situation, then, is such that you simply cannot afford it, I would be frank about that with the owner. These are hard times for everyone, and he may understand. On the flip side, these may be hard times for him too, which is why they have a contract in the first place.

Have you discussed it with the owners, and asked to be released from the contract? This may be your best and only option.

I really wouldn't do the whole "I didn't know it was religious" route. That just doesn't have a ring of truth to it. I know nothing about martial arts, aside from watching it performed from time to time and even I know it is based on deeply spiritual premises. Stick to what sounds true---you just have financial trouble. Trying to get out of a contract because you cannot abide being exposed to a religion different from yours takes away from the legitimacy of your position----that you are in financial trouble.

Good luck, and hopefully better days are ahead for you.
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Perhaps telling the owner your issues would get you sued in court at his first opportunity after you stopped paying.

Frankly, I'd sooner go with shin splints... invisible.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Perhaps telling the owner your issues would get you sued in court at his first opportunity after you stopped paying.

Frankly, I'd sooner go with shin splints... invisible.
You are seriously telling posters in a legal forum to LIE so they don't have to honor their contractual obligations. Holy Toledo.

Your moral compass makes mine look like a GPS.

You won't get sued for being up front and honest. You cannot get sued for telling him you are having financial difficulty and by telling him ---there is a chance he may allow him to be released from the contract.

However, if he doesn't tell him, and simply STOPS paying, then yes, there is NO chance he will be released and he WILL be sued.

What's your point? To simply stop paying without making an EFFORT at resolution first? Or to LIE to get out of a contractual obligation?

Bad idea.
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[COLOR=black]To [COLOR=blue]ERR [/COLOR]is human.[/COLOR]
To [COLOR=darkorchid]FORGIVE [/COLOR]is divine.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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No. I'm not counseling anyone to lie. I'm telling them that I have shin splints. What they have is up to their own body. Back pain? Just like what you have is clearly bad advice, opening pandora's box (saying more than is necessary and won't work against that contract, but WILL make it next to impossible to defend against a suit for performance of the contract). Whose lawyer are you anyway when you answer questions so that the advice benefits their tormentor?

Love your new quote, Grace. Sounds like you.

Today's economic scene makes it important for each of us to conserve. Instead of finding it important to fulfill contracts that hold no benefit to the purchaser, I find it important to conserve assets of those whose assets are at risk for no purpose.

Last edited by donallie; 03-09-2009 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by donallie View Post
No. I'm not counseling anyone to lie. I'm telling them that I have shin splints. What they have is up to their own body. Back pain? Just like what you have is clearly bad advice, opening pandora's box (saying more than is necessary and won't work against that contract, but WILL make it next to impossible to defend against a suit for performance of the contract). Whose lawyer are you anyway when you answer questions so that the advice benefits their tormentor?

Love your new quote, Grace. Sounds like you.

Today's economic scene makes it important for each of us to conserve. Instead of finding it important to fulfill contracts that hold no benefit to the purchaser, I find it important to conserve assets of those whose assets are at risk for no purpose.
ROFL!!! Huh?

What does YOUR having shin splints have to do with the poster trying to get out of a contract?

What is there to defend? The court doesn't care WHY he didn't pay---the question before the court is DID YOU PAY per the contract? Name a single reason he could give that could "work against him". Give an example.

There ISN'T one.

The reason WHY he is getting out of his contract is not relevant in terms of "being used against him". The question the company will have to prove in court is DID HE FULFILL HIS OBLIGATION PER THE CONTRACT? If he tells them he hears voices that tell him martial arts are dangerous---and he tells them that, can they sue for more than the amount stipulated in the contract?

No.

If he tells them he had a noctural vision that said he will die from hypothermia if he continues to take lessons, will that work against him?

No.

The reason he is not paying cannot be used against him---the reason WHY is immaterial. Whether or not he pays is the issue. Nothing he says can be used against him since the REASON is immaterial.

However, there is a possibility the owner of the establishment may be willing to let him OUT of the contract. Is saying "Hey, I just lost my job and I have a baby on the way" (FOR EXAMPLES SAKE ONLY)something that could be used against him in court?

No.

Saying, "Hey, my financial situation has become pretty dire--I just got laid off and I have a family to feed"---will that work against him in court?

No.

Saying, "I'm a full time student and my books cost more this semester than I intended and I over extended myself."----will that work against him?

No.

Gosh, I'm having trouble thinking of a single thing he could say that could be "used against him" OR cause his "assets to be at risk" any more than they already are for the amount of the contract.

If he is sued for not fulfilling the contract, the issue is NOT "Hey, dude, why didn't you pay?" but rather, "DID HE PAY". The reason WHY is not relevant--unless it is for the reason he mentioned in the original posting--which clearly it is not.

Lets consider your words:

[COLOR=red]Instead of finding it important to fulfill contracts that hold no benefit to the purchaser, I find it important to conserve assets of those whose assets are at risk for no purpose.[/COLOR]

The IMPORTANCE of keeping a VOLUNTARY CONTRACT is NOT at all related to how BENEFICIAL it is to the PURCHASER.

LMAO

Trust me on this, dahhhling, the COURTS find it VERY important to fulfill contracts--EVEN IF THEY HOLD NO BENEFIT to the PURCHASER.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

In other words, if I buy something with my credit card and they decide it is the wrong color or size, and it "holds no benefit to me" the purchaser, can I simply stop paying? Of course not.

IF his assets are at risk, he CANNOT conserve them by signing contracts HE cannot honor.

[COLOR=red]The IMPORTANCE of keeping a VOLUNTARY CONTRACT is NOT at all related to how BENEFICIAL it is to the PURCHASER.[/COLOR]

How are his 'assets' at risk by telling the truth and asking to be released? If the guy says no--what happens? He gets sued for the amount of the contract. No more, no less.

If he never mentions it and doesn't pay, what happens? He gets sued for the amount of the contract.

No more, no less.

It is FOOLISH not to TRY the path of lease resistance BEFORE defauting, if necessary. Because the contract is "of no value to the purchaser" is totally irrelevant in terms of legal OBLIGATION to abide by the contract.

If he tells the truth the guy MAY let him out of the contract. If he DOESN'T tell the truth, there is NO chance he will be let out of the contract. Nothing he says by way of reason gives the company something to use against him. In fact, one of the first things the judge will ask is, "When you fell on hard times, did you approach the other party about your inability to pay and see what terms may be worked out BEFORE you got to this point?"

Bottom line--You've been watching too much Law and Order. Nothing he can say can be used against him in this setting--this isn't a CRIMINAL trial. It is a CIVIL trial where the issue is 'DID HE KEEP THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT"? Being honest about WHY he could not isn't going to cost him any more and very well MAY cost him less if the guy feels sorry for him or allows him to get out of the contract.

And your hasty back pedal on the "shin splints" is silly. He cannot just come in and say "I have back pain". I am sure he has to prove he has an injury---you are telling him to lie.[COLOR=red] If he HAD an injury he wouldn't be here because he would already BE released per the terms of the contract. HE states the contract says you can be released if you have an injury. Clearly , since he is here asking how to get out of the contract, he doesn't HAVE an injury. [/COLOR]Your telling him to "go with" one is , well...LYING. He doesn't have one. And, of course, if he chooses one at random to "go with" as you suggested, he has another problem---PROOF. He has to PAY a doctor to LIE. Shame on you and your illegal unethical "solutions" to people's problems.

ONLY YOU would consider [COLOR=red]DEFAULTING on a CONT[/COLOR][COLOR=red]RACT [/COLOR]a money saving tip for the "conservation of assets". ( huuuuuuge eyeroll).

I was thinking of changing my quote to " The Goddess is Alive, the Magic is Afoot".

Soon, Grasshoppa. Soon.
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]

Last edited by GentleGrace; 03-10-2009 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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No, wait , wait....

Nooo wait, wait........... my new signature quote in YOUR honor ROFL!!!!

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=magenta]Credo nonnullos hic mortous esse[/COLOR][/FONT]


LMAO!!!!!
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To [COLOR=darkorchid]FORGIVE [/COLOR]is divine.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I perceive that your creed is to harm your clients, while you perceive that my creed is dead... because I do not believe in putting him in harms way.

This guy has already researched what he has to do to kill this contract. How he accomplishes it is seldom my worry. It appears that you would convict your client if you thought him guilty... whether or not he is. Something tells me you won't last long as an attorney. Or maybe you should be a prosecutor. ONLY a prosecutor would assume that because he knows that he can rescind the contract if he is physically unable to do it... that he must have lied about his physical ability.

I have shin splints that prevent me from exercising for long or very hard. You have no ethics, but assume your client to be guilty. I ask you, if you do not represent your client and truthfully tell him what acts would be inappropriate and why, but choose instead to tell your client to say something that puts him in immediate legal jeopardy regardless of his prior physical status, are you not violating the oath of an attorney? Unfortunately this does not fly, because we know you have not taken the oath. You simply aspire to be clean as a whistle. I certainly hope you can stay that way, but considering that you set yourself as judge and jury, why would anyone want you as a lawyer? Once you discover that a lawyer actually has a fine line to walk and that you have violated it many times in these postings, you might think twice about what kind of lawyer you wish to be.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Blah Blah Blah. Another posting that says absolutely nothing but give YOUR opinion of my legal career ( again ) . It didn't matter the first thousand times you said it--it matters even less now.

FOCUS on the SUBJECT MATERIAL. As flattered as I am to see yet ANOTHER posting about ME, FOCUS. You are missing a great opportunity to learn something.

HOW does telling the truth put this man "in harm's way"?

Answer that.

How could telling the truth ----"I am having financial difficulty" put him in harm's way?


YOUR premise is I am putting this man in harm's way.

How?

Can he be SUED for MORE than the amount of the contract since he is unable to pay?

NOPE.

Is the REASON he cannot pay going to cost him more?

Nope.

HOW is he in HARMS WAY by telling the truth?

WHAT can he POSSIBLY say that will COST HIM MORE than the amount of the contract?

The answer? NOTHING.

This isn't a CRIMINAL trial where what you say can and will be used against you.

Stop watching Law and Order and think.

And answer the question---What can he possibly say to the owner of the establishment that is going to put him in harms way---well, besides YOUR suggestion he LIE about his health.

Aside from THAT gem, what can he say that is going to cost him more?

Name ONE thing.

And---follow, grasshoppa.

IF he has an injury---then he would have already accomplished his goal of being released from the contract. He wouldn't BE here asking HOW to get out of it. If he already HAD a way out, he wouldn't be ASKING for a way out--he would already HAVE one.

AND-- for the love of all that is holy---[COLOR=red]THERE IS NO PROSECUTOR IN A SMALL CLAIMS CIVIL CASE [/COLOR](EYEROLL) So, if I were the prosecutor (per YOUR suggestion I should be) I WOULDN'T BE THERE. I WOULD BE IN A CRIMINAL TRIAL.

THERE IS [COLOR=red]NO PROSECUTOR IN A CIVIL CASE[/COLOR]. * drooooooooooool*

It makes sense why you keep foaming on about the "in harms way"--YOU DONT KNOW the difference between a criminal trial and a civil trial---and you PROVED that you do not by 1. suggesting I'd be prosecuting a civil case and 2. asserting what the poster says can be used against him to put him "in harms way". Geezzzzzzz..............

*^* Handing Out Clues*^* Handing Out Clues*^* Grab a handful, will ya?

Back to the question.

HOW can telling the truth "I am having financial difficulty" put him in harm's way.

It's YOUR statement. Defend it. Give an example.

You know as well as do I, there isn't one.
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To [COLOR=darkorchid]FORGIVE [/COLOR]is divine.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]

Last edited by GentleGrace; 03-10-2009 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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And, it's not your CREED that is dead.

YOU said YOU were dead.

Remember?

Whatzup wif dat, dude?
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]NEITHER[/COLOR] is my policy.[/FONT] [/FONT]
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