LegalMatch Free Legal Advice Forums     
Find A Lawyer Now!
Legal Forum

Go Back   LegalMatch Free Legal Advice Forums > Business Law Forum > Business Disputes
User Name
Password Register
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Find a Lawyer Now By Category:
Family & Divorce Criminal Defense Job & Employment Personal Injury
Real Estate Lawyers Immigration Business Lawyers Other Lawyers
Be assured that LegalMatch is Fast, Free and Confidential
Not Ready To Hire an Expert Lawyer? Get Online Legal Documents
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 07:40 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Default Missing Youth Team Money

I just don't know what to do next. Am I out of options? Looking for constructive opinions. This is a longer read, so be prepared, I want to provide some of the facts to help.

My son played on a youth hockey team for three years with the same head coach. The boys on the team were 11 years old in the third and final season with the team. For each of the three years, each family of the young players agreed to share equally in covering reasonable and necessary costs for the boys. This included ice time at the rink for practices and games, referee fees, certain equipment costs for socks and practice sweaters, etc.
Each season, the parents would pay an equal monthly amount into the pool of funds available to cover costs as well as hold fundraisers for the boys to offset the high expense. Our team even had a sponsor who also donated money as well as game sweaters and hockey pants with the sponsor name on them. The money was handled by two individuals on the team, the head coach and the financial manager who collected the money and wrote the checks to cover expenses. At the end of each season, if there was any amount overfunded to the pool, each family received an equal share back of the overage.

In the third and final season with the same head coach, some parents had noticed an "odd" increase in the monthly ice fees each family was paying, even though we saw increased monies raised in fundraisers and sponsorship money. The head coach always handed out team financial statements every two months on where the team stood financially. About half way through the season, I and some additional parents noticed some "questionable" items that he coach was reporting in the financial statements. With the success of the team, no parent wanted to question the items in fear of offending the head coach and getting their player released from the team mid-season. When the season ended, the questions started flying.

I am an accountant with public accounting experience at Deloitte, and am currently a Senior Financial Analyst. In my review, I noted multiple unreported revenues that were collected but never accounted for in the financial statements. I also noted multiple "odd" expenses that never appeared in the prior two years. During my questioning of the head coach and financial manager, I asked to perform an audit of the accounting records. They declined turning over any accounting records to any of the parents. They did however agree to meet with me to discuss any "issues" I had. During that meeting, through their comments, I noted incorrect accounting and money that was unaccounted for and "missing". I demanded an audit and they refused sighting I had no rights to review the accounting records.

I went to the sponsor and discussed the parents' concerns. The Director of the Hockey Association agreed to have an independent volunteer accountant review the records and offer their opinion. After a couple of months of searching, we found a volunteer accountant to review the records. When the volunteer requested the documents needed to perform the audit, the head coach, the financial manager, and the Director changed their mind all of a sudden and said they would not turn over the records for an audit. I figured I had uncovered some serious issues and the Director did not want any of the audit results getting out as it would have looked poorly upon his very strong program.

I was then advised to go to the police and file a report, which I did. They were initially very interested in what I had to say and took my information down. I even gave them a binder of documentation supporting my claim of missing money. I called the Director and informed him I had filed the report and he told me that it was no big deal and he wasn't worried. Two days later when I called the officer to find out the status of my report, he now seemed very disinterested and made it sound like he was too busy with other more important things. He said unless I had bank statements and receipts as further evidence, there was nothing they could do. He told me it sounded like a "civil issue." I explained they would not turn over the documents I needed to prove what was going on but I showed him the dots and connected them. Still wasn't interested. I asked the Director to turn the records over to the officer and he stated, "Jimmy and I already talked. There's nothing there." James was the name of the officer I spoke with who was handling my report.

When you look at the financial statements, I am able to prove that there is over $4000 unaccounted for. It works out to about $235.00 per family. I talked with a lawyer who said he charges $250.00 an hour and that legal fees cannot be recouped from the coach in a lawsuit. The head coach and manager were extremely "creative" with the accounting records and fooled a majority of the parents. I was the financial manager the first season before I handed it off to the new manager in the second season, so I know how the head coach thinks. They did a very good job of cooking the books if I do say so myself, but I caught their errors and can prove it without a doubt if I get my hands on the accounting records. I also think some expense amounts listed were made up and no such receipt exists. It is pretty complex on what they did and how they actually pulled it off. So complex that it would take an attorney at least 10 hours to sort through all the evidence I gathered, including documented e-mails from the head coach and manager over a three year period on what they represented to the parents. Then the lawyer would have to have a CPA review it all to confirm my beliefs. Start adding up the expense of the legal fees and it MORE than outweighs what we would get in return.

But it made me mad that they could just get away with something like that, especially using a team of kids to do it. So I filed a small claims suit by myself to try to get copies of the accounting records that way. Our case was last week and was heard by an attorney Magistrate. I provided a binder with about 25 pages of evidence that the coach overcharged me by $700 for the season, but represented to me that he spent all the money on necessary and reasonable expenses. I was hoping she would make him prove that my claim was not valid. Unfortunately, it went awful. The magistrate didn't even review the binder I provided. I tried referencing to it, but she was more interested in just talking about my claims. It turned into a "his word" versus "my word", no evidence looked at. Unless you look at the evidence, a person can't connect the dots and see what really transpired. I didn't expect the entire $700. I expected at least $235.00 for sure based on the solid evidence I provided and then maybe a little more if the head coach couldn't provide receipts for the expenses I challenged. He provided no bank statements, no receipts to prove me wrong. She listened to us TALK for about 70 minutes without ever looking hard at what was in front of her. I got a judgment in my favor for $100.00 plus $85 in court costs. Big flipping deal. What did I do wrong?

IN part of the evidence binder, I gave her copies of three of my cancelled checks showing a total of $235.00 I paid but was never reported on the financial statements. $200 was for an equipment deposit that I was supposed to get back when I returned the two hockey sweaters and hockey pants at the end of the season. The equipment was reused each year by multiple teams so a deposit was required of all families to ensure equipment was maintained and returned at the end of each season. I also showed how my check was written for and cleared the bank at $385, yet only $350 is showing up that month as collected in the financial statements. She didn't want to look at that in my packet of evidence. If she had looked, she would have seen $3000 collected from parents coming into the team bank account. She would have seen $3000 going out of the team account to the Hockey Association who provided the equipment. Nowhere do you see that $3000 coming back into the team account when the equipment was returned. The Director slipped one day and stated that money had been returned to the coach when the equipment was turned in. He didn't realize it never showed up on the last financial statement handed to the families. He hasn't spoken to me since after I showed him.

During questioning by the Magistrate, the head coach made representations to her that I could prove in documented e-mails were absolutely false. He lied under oath. I asked if the session was recorded on what he said and the answer was "No. Not in small claims cases." I can appeal to a District Judge if I want, but is there any hope he would look at the evidence during the case?

I am just SO FRUSTRATED. I have presented my findings to many people I know who are skilled in accounting. I have presented it from the side of a parent and everybody agrees that something doesn't smell right. I have also presented the case as if were the head coach and showed what I had done. Those people as well told me I needed to come clean with the parents, clean up the books, and return the money to the parents. They were relieved once I told them I wasn't really the head coach and was just looking for an honest opinion.

So what can I do? Is this a case where the bad guy wins? Any direction and/or opinions would be appreciated. Thanks for listening.

Last edited by anyhopeleft : 07-29-2008 at 07:49 PM. Reason: spellcheck done after original post
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 09:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,370
Send a message via AIM to GentleGrace
Default

Your posting is too complex, detailed and long to be answered in a message forum. One thought only---

This statement you made: "I was hoping she would make him prove that my claim was not valid." You have it backward. The legal process works exactly the opposite. It is YOUR burden to prove that YOUR case has merit---not his job to disprove it. The assumption is the defendant is innocent and you have the burden of proof and must prove your case--not the other way around. He is under no obligation to defend himself against your allegations.

Perhaps this is best considered one of life's lessons for karma to rectify. My feeling is your best bet is criminal charges--but since they declined to initiate an investigation, perhaps it is time to move on. Just an opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 05:15 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Default Proof?

OK Grace, give us your ruling and state why you rule for the defendant on the following facts. What else do I need to prove?

I present the judge a canceled and cleared check for $200.00 that I wrote to the head coach for an equipment deposit. He said I'd get it back when the equipment is returned. I returned the equipment. He never returns the deposit.

I present a canceled and cleared check for $385. He reports he only received $350.00.

I am seeking $235 back. Your ruling, please.

Last edited by anyhopeleft : 07-31-2008 at 05:17 AM. Reason: spelling error
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 07:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,370
Send a message via AIM to GentleGrace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anyhopeleft View Post
OK Grace, give us your ruling and state why you rule for the defendant on the following facts. What else do I need to prove?

I present the judge a canceled and cleared check for $200.00 that I wrote to the head coach for an equipment deposit. He said I'd get it back when the equipment is returned. I returned the equipment. He never returns the deposit.

I present a canceled and cleared check for $385. He reports he only received $350.00.

I am seeking $235 back. Your ruling, please.
EYEROLL. Pseudo "rulings" on Internet forums bring you satisfaction on some level? How strange.

Where did I rule for the defendant? I never said your position doesn't have merit--nor did I say the defendant was right in prevailing over you at every turn. In fact, I didn't comment on the merits of your evidence at all---at no time did I even suggest it wasn't adequate. I simply thought it may be helpful to provide a bit of clarity regarding how the law works--it isn't his job to disprove YOU. It's YOUR job to prove his guilt. That was the only point of my posting.

I didn't make the law, and I'm not the one ruling against you. Perhaps instead of arguing with a perfect stranger who took the time to offer you information on how the legal process works, and how, on one point, at least, your expectations weren't accurate ( regarding asking him to prove you were not correct), you could channel your attentions on making these pressing decisions in your life. Decide what it is worth to you--per your own admission, to proceed through legal channels would cost you more than the lawsuit would reap should you eventually prevail. You have already exhausted every legal venue, it seems----to continue will, I suspect, cause you more grief and anguish than it is worth. But, as I said in my first posting--it's your call. You can find an attorney who will be happy to take your case--and charge you liberally for doing so. If your issue is really the money, it doesn't make fiscal sense to proceed. However, if your motivation is to be compensated emotionally for this 'wrong' that has been done, only you can put the 'price' on that. It's your call.

I cannot presume as to why you are being ruled against, nor would my "ruling" be remotely relevant. To argue the merits of this with me is counterproductive and a waste of bandwidth.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 12:16 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Default Second Opinion

Mr/Ms Nohope

I don’t usually respond, but with two young ones in federation baseball, I could relate and understand your post. My opinion is DON’T GIVE UP! I tend to disagree with GentleGrace and her opinion. To extract one sentence and tell you it’s “karma” makes it sound like an opinion of a philosophical journalist. I also disagree that your post was too complex for this forum. In fact, I am interested in discussing this further with you if you don't mind, but in a private e-mail setting.

The only thing I agree with Pooh on is that he is indeed innocent until you prove him guilty. Canceled checks were a great start and how you only recieved a $100 judgment sounds odd to me as well. We can discuss further a bit later.

In my opinion, you truly do need a bit more intelligence involved, and you are not going to get that in a Small Claims Setting. If you truly feel there is serious wrongdoing and you could prove that criminal charges are warranted, then you unfortunately have to spend the money on a sound and intelligent attorney. You can then obtain the records needed for your case and re-file a police report. The tough choice is yours. You either really need to pay an attorney to obtain the justice you seek, or you need to decide to let him get away with it and move on. I recommend and hope you seek the wisdom of a good attorney. Good Luck!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 01:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,370
Send a message via AIM to GentleGrace
Default

Lets consider for a moment the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTomlinson View Post
My opinion is DON’T GIVE UP! I tend to disagree with GentleGrace and her opinion.


Actually at no time did I suggest the poster "GIVE UP"--in fact, I declined to give any judgement call (i.e. "ruling") despite her requests for me to do so.

Now, lets contrast the beginning of your posting with the end of the posting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTomlinson View Post
"You either really need to pay an attorney to obtain the justice you seek, or you need to decide to let him get away with it and move on."
Wow, now that is awesome advice-(completely different from your first sentence)--in fact, it sounds almost exactly like, well.. MY posting--you know, the one with which you disagree?

QUOTE: Decide what it is worth to you--per your own admission, to proceed through legal channels would cost you more than the lawsuit would reap should you eventually prevail. You have already exhausted every legal venue, it seems----to continue will, I suspect, cause you more grief and anguish than it is worth. But, as I said in my first posting--it's your call. You can find an attorney who will be happy to take your case--and charge you liberally for doing so. If your issue is really the money, it doesn't make fiscal sense to proceed. However, if your motivation is to be compensated emotionally for this 'wrong' that has been done, only you can put the 'price' on that. It's your call.

How about this gem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTomlinson View Post
The tough choice is yours.


Well, bless my pancake- headed bunny--that sounds a lot like MY posting which said ( in both postings) "It's your call." and " But, as I said in my first posting--it's your call."

You aren't disagreeing with me--you are soliciting.

Perhaps the problem you have with my posting is that I am not an attorney attempting to drum up business, asking forum members to contact me privately? You say you usually just read these postings, and don't reply? My dear, according to the main screen, you just joined an hour ago. (eyeroll)

Lets recap what we DO know:

There are only two basic remedies--civil or criminal. Now, lets look at what SHE has stated about both of them:

1. Small claims was a bust.
2. Civil court was too expensive ( per HER posting--not my own opinion)
3. Criminal charges were not pursued.

Wow, where does that leave us? With the same three options we started with---and she, herself, in her own posting outlined how she felt she exhausted all three.

This, though, is my unequivocal favorite:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTomlinson View Post
If you truly feel there is serious wrongdoing and you could prove that criminal charges are warranted, then you unfortunately have to spend the money on a sound and intelligent attorney.
Obviously, she feels there is serious wrong doing--that is WHY she has pursued it so rigorously and why she has posted here. And she has TRIED to prove the same in the criminal arena and the authorities declined to pursue it. And she knows all about spending the money to hire an attorney--she investigated that, too. The question then, is, was there something ELSE you wanted to add that hasn't been addressed already? It would appears as though the only point of your posting is, then, "contact me in private so we can, er, 'discuss' this further".

Your posting, dear, is nothing more than cleverly disguised spam. This issue isn't too complex for a message board ( your comment ), but you want to discuss it in private? Why else would you want to deprive all the avid readers of this forum the benefit of your knowledge regarding this issue? Is it because no one here is paying a few hundred dollars a billing hour?

Spam. Solicitation. And against the terms of service of this site.

Last edited by GentleGrace : 07-31-2008 at 01:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 01:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 452
Default Small Claims Appeal

You feel each family is owed $235. You prevailed in Small Claims Court $100. So really you are currently out $135.

You of course can appeal and typically in small claims court appeals you have more of a chance that the judge will review evidence. Small claims in notorious for not doing so....but is it worth the $135?

Also, in some states you are allowed to have an attorney represent you in the small claims appeal. Check with your courthouse to see if this is the law in your county/state.

While you may have had an excellent case, presented perfectly but attorneys/judges don't like math. Haven't you ever heard "I didn't like math/or wasn't good at math so I became an attorney". Although we are good at billing. Esp. in small claims court where a typical case is friends loaning money to friends, fender benders, dry cleaning lawsuits (they lost or damaged my favorite Banana Republic shirt), their dog bit my dog etc.

GL
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 01:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,370
Send a message via AIM to GentleGrace
Default

I am horrified to actually admit....

I agree with Legal Eagle.

There.

I said it.

(ugh).

: )
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 01:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 452
Default Sometimes.....

I know what I am talking about....but only sometimes
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 01:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,370
Send a message via AIM to GentleGrace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle View Post
I know what I am talking about....but only sometimes
I don't think I've ever disagreed with your professional advice.

Someone cancel Jerry Springer and call Montel.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:17 AM.

Find Lawyers | Family & Child Custody Lawyers | Divorce Lawyers | Criminal Defense Lawyers
Job & Employment Lawyers | Personal Injury Lawyers | Real Estate Lawyers | Business Lawyers
Immigration Lawyers | Bankruptcy Lawyers | Estate Planning Lawyers | DUI-DWI Lawyers

Marketing for Attorneys | Websites for Attorneys | Law Firm Financing
LegalMatch Reviews | LegalMatch Forums | LegalMatch Family Lawyers | LegalMatch PR
LegalMatch in Austin | LegalMatch Life | LegalMatch Affiliate Program


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0
Copyright ©1999-2008 LegalMatch. All rights reserved. LegalMatch®, the LegalMatch
logo, and the tradedress are trademarks of LegalMatch. Patents Pending.